Germany wants to significantly strengthen its defence capabilities. But it is no longer just about more ammunition and missiles. Air defence, drones and new technologies such as humanoid robots and space systems are also playing an increasingly important role.
Rheinmetall chief executive Armin Papperger talks about rearmament, current bottlenecks – and which weapons systems could prove decisive in future.
At the keel-laying ceremony for the third class 424 fleet service vessel in Wolgast, we spoke to Papperger about Germany’s arms production, the role of the Skyranger and the weapons of the future.
Euronews: Mr Papperger, in March you said missile stockpiles were worryingly low. What is the situation now?
Papperger: I believe that is still the case. You simply cannot produce missiles that quickly, and that is why we at Rheinmetall are launching a major investment programme – and not just us, many manufacturers are doing the same.
And there are huge bottlenecks when it comes to rocket motors, but also warheads, and we need to get much faster here to bring Germany, but also Europe and NATO, back up to target levels that are sufficient if we come under threat.
Euronews: Where do we stand with the Skyranger? The systems have been ordered, but will they arrive in time? How fast is it moving now?
Papperger: Yes, with the Skyranger – and this is really a narrative that keeps coming up. Under the contract, we have to start series deliveries of the Skyranger in 2027. That will happen; at the moment we are only facing minor delays.
There are several technologies we need to update: the chassis, the radar technology and the missiles that have to be integrated.
But I am firmly convinced that, together with BAAINBw (the Federal Office of Bundeswehr Equipment, Information Technology and In-Service Support) and the ministry, we will find a good solution in this area.
Our people are working on it day and night and, as you know, we are massively ramping up Skyranger capacity. From the end of next year we will build, or be able to build, up to 400 a year. So I have no concerns at all in that respect.
Euronews: There is a joint venture for deep strike capabilities. Where do we stand on that?
Papperger: The joint venture we have is, on the one hand, with Destinus and, on the other, with Lockheed Martin. With Lockheed Martin we are working on artillery rockets; the cruise missiles we are developing with Destinus. Both joint ventures are in the final stages before signing, and we expect to receive the first order for cruise missiles by the end of this year or the beginning of next year.
Euronews: Shouldn’t we be building simpler systems, but more of them? Isn’t that what Ukraine is showing?
Papperger: We are doing that as well, but in some areas it doesn’t help. If you look at what the Skyranger can do today – it can shoot down a missile flying at Mach 3. You cannot do that with an interceptor and you cannot do it with a simple system.
And if you speak today to the Inspector of the German Army, he will tell you: “In two years the threat will look completely different.” The Skyranger really offers multiple capabilities; we cannot achieve that with our interceptor solution or with our simpler systems.
For example, we also have “.50 guns” that can shoot down light drones, category 1 drones. That becomes very, very difficult once you are dealing with, say, jet drones – they are hardly manageable with such systems. That is why we believe a sustainable solution is the better one.
Euronews: How big a driver of employment are the defence industry and Rheinmetall in reality?
Papperger: I think we are an important engine of job creation. At the moment, excluding the civilian business, around 34,000 people work at Rheinmetall. We are growing by roughly 10,000 net per year, and our aim is to reach 70,000 by 2030, with a supply chain employing another 210,000 people. So if you add that up, it’s almost 300,000 people. That is a jobs engine.
Euronews: How quickly can arms and ammunition production be ramped up – for companies like Rheinmetall?
Papperger: Yes, we are already doing it. We have shown it, for example with ammunition. In medium calibres we have gone from under one million to four million rounds. In artillery we have increased output from 70,000 to 1.5 million rounds. Tank ammunition is now at 240,000 rounds, up from 40,000, 50,000 or 60,000, depending on the year. So we are doing this. And what we are doing now is doubling our trucks.
So our logistical and tactical vehicles are now being more than doubled. So we are doing this. At the moment we simply don’t have the orders to do even more. Rheinmetall has a six-year investment programme worth 30 billion euros, and the scale of our current investment is enormous. That is why it is so important that the signal we have sent again today – that the minister is here, that he is committed – shows that we are not just building up capacity, but that it will be used sustainably and that people will have work.
For me that has been an excellent signal, a very, very good sign, and it reassures me somewhat that the federal government is really shouldering its responsibility here.
Euronews: What comes next? Drones have been a major issue recently. What is the next step – space, which is already playing a role, or combat robots, humanoid robots?
Papperger: Robots will come, that is absolutely clear. We have a research centre in Bremen focusing on humanoid robots. We are working on them. We do not yet have products ready for series production, which is why we have not gone public with it. But we are investing a lot of money there. Space is another area in which we are investing heavily, both in satellite construction and in processing communications.
In other words, all the information we receive from satellites should be properly processed. And drones will remain, and so will everything else – because it’s all needed. For combined-arms combat you need artillery, armoured weapons, conventional ammunition, drones and missiles.
The only question now is how much of each you need. It has to be a mix. And that will change: the quantities in the individual areas will shift.
On our own behalf: Also watch the latest Euronews exclusive report on the German tank brigade in Lithuania: